From: Christina

Date: 3/6/2007 12:08:51 AM

To: Undisclosed-Recipient:,

Subject: Letter from CIC

Today I had a lengthy talk and then a long email from Ann Heathcote, Senior Citiznship Poilicy Advisor, Integrartion Banch. I have removed some parts of this email as the pertain to specific individuals and that is their private business. I honestly believe that we are now seeing some positive proof that CIC ar  now aware that we have osme issues and are working to help us. Where ever possible I will pass on your concerns and if you feel like you would prefer to address this yourself I iwll ask annto provide a phone number and email address.

Here is main part of that email: Christine

I was glad to meet you last Monday and to hear your concerns first hand.  I was reassured by your work which confirms that the majority of people born on Canadian forces bases between 1947 and 1977 were registered as Canadian citizens as they should have been. The challenge seems to be communicating clearly what the Registration of Birth Abroad certificate is, what the citizenship certificate is, and how they relate to one another. We want to provide the information and assistance people need to be reassured that they are citizens and what they need to do should they have to replace their proof of citizenship. In the rare case where a person is not a citizen, we want to work with that person to give them the assistance they need. I appreciate your input and I hope we will continue along this positive path.

I think the point you made last Monday is well taken. You said that once you made the analogy that the citizenship certificate (and the RBA, I believe) was equivalent to a Canadian birth certificate, people understood its significance to them. Canadian citizens by birth do tend to think in terms of a birth certificate proving citizenship. But, for those born outside Canada, the birth certificate does not do that: it's the RBA or citizenship certificate that proves citizenship.   The RBAs with the typed statement "This document is not a birth certificate" speak to this point as well.  The RBA is not a birth certificate or proof of birth; it is proof of citizenship for persons who were not born in Canada.  I verified that the three different versions of the RBA say the holder is a Canadian citizen or was registered as a Canadian citizen born abroad.  Having said that, your examples do show that there is confusion about the RBA

The RBA was no longer issued after February 14, 1977 and citizens, no matter how they became citizens (by birth or by naturalization), or when they became citizens, all receive the same document after that date - the citizenship certificate. If the information in the DND letter is not clear, we would like to follow up with them. I would also be interested in seeing the letter you told me about on Monday that said people were given until 1981 to replace their RBA.

Regarding the message you got from CIC about the RBA being put back in the system, perhaps it was in reference to Human Resources and Social Development Canada accepting it again as proof of citizenship for obtaining or renewing a Social Insurance Number. Government departments and agencies decide which documents they will accept as proof of citizenship or proof of identity. HRSDC had removed the RBA from their list of acceptable documents for proof of citizenship in 2002 and began accepting it again last year. I would like to reassure you that CIC has always considered it proof of citizenship.

Regarding the RBA stamped "VOID", when a person applies for a replacement citizenship certificate, they must surrender all previously issued certificates still in their possession (a person can only have one valid citizenship certificate at a time). If they want the old one back for a souvenir, CIC stamps the document "void" or "certificate no longer valid" and returns it to the applicant. I can only assume that that is what happened in this case. That being said, the RBA is not always stamped. If the person in possession of the "void" RBA did not apply for a citizenship certificate, they should call CIC call centre to confirm why the RBA was stamped.

Thank you again, Christina, for bringing these issues forward. Clearly there are still a lot of people who have questions about their status. We share an interest in making sure these questions are answered. CIC is dedicating resources to help in this endeavour and I hope you will encourage those who come to you with questions about their status to contact us for assistance. I will repeat what I said at the beginning of this email: I appreciate your input and I hope we will continue along this positive path. 
Ann

What probably affected my citizenship was that, in order to join the CF, I had to denounce my dual citizenship.  They said that it was so that when I went to Germany I would not be wanted for missing the conscription.  All German males have to serve 2 years in the military, or so I was told.  So I when I enlisted, I had to sign declarations that I was only Canadian.  Even though now I would like to pursue getting back what I had.

Well I'm going to have to bite the bullet and apply for my passport using the now in question documents.  Have to do it so that I can fly to LA.  I'll be sweating a little while I'm being processed.

That's why I don't really care too much about politicians, the collective is like a large sink hole....nothing there.  They step in the turd big-time, and then try to shake it off, but there is always this sticky goo under their shoe.

I was born in Iserlohn, Germany.   My mother was a German citizen at the time...now Canadian, and my father was a Canadian soldier stationed overseas.  The only real document that I have is the registration of birth born abroad certificate.  I was somewhat apprehensive about applying for my passport, but due to having to fly to the States for training, there was no other way around the matter.

Well I couldn't be more happier now!  The whole passport application process went smoothly with the born abroad certificate being recognized as proper ID for showing my Canadian citizenship.  The one question that I was asked though was that "Did you re-enter and live in Canada before your 24th birthday?"  The answer was yes, so I imagine that individuals with the same document but not back in Canada before turning 24 may have problems acquiring a passport.

I paid an extra $10 to get the passport in 10 business days.  Beats waiting months for it, due to the US border fiasco.

Thanks.  Hope they don't lose your original.

Hello everyone,

I seem to have the opposite problem. I'm trying to get info on applying / reclaiming my German citizenship and there are roadbloks at every corner. Has anyone had any luck with this? Any info or links would be greatly appriciated. Bite!

Jules
Born in Lahr "82

I just got my passport after a 3 month wait.  I'd advise that you replace that citizenship card as I'm pretty sure the next time you apply for a passport you'll have to present the citizenship card.